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Home » Forums » Forum Archives » Networking and Internet Sharing » Topic # 915

Strange problem in p2p setup - link, but no ping?
doubtme May-13-01 07:17 AM
Hi there, I'm a bit of a networking newbie, and I'm just trying to set up a simple peer to peer network between our new Win98 PC and our old Win95 one so they can share the internet connection.
Or at least, that is the eventual aim.
The problem at the moment is that the two computers can't share anything

Here are the symptoms:

Both link lights lit - but at startup they go on, and then off, and then on again.
Net diag can't find any other computer.
Ping is not responding - I get a request time out.
But pinging self (i.e. ping 10.0.0.1 for the computer set to 10.0.0.1) seems to work - responds with a ping of <10ms. (IPs are set to 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2 respectively.)
Subnets are (255.255.255.0 for both).
Both show themselves in network neighbourhood (but not the other)
Protocols/Other stuff installed included:
Client for Microsoft Network
TCP/IP
MS NetBEUI
MS File and Printer Sharing
Both are set to share files, but not printers
Bindings are MS Client and File and Printer Sharing.
Both have directories set to shared (read-only); each can access their own through the Network Neighbourhood icon...
But the other computer just won't show up.

I would have thought cable problem with the net-diag, but the link light is on.

Neither network card has conflicts and Win9x detects them both as working properly.
The Win95 card is 10mbps, the Win98 is 10/100.

Suggestions, hints, tips, or further tests to carry out?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Christo Fogelberg


1. Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-13-01 10:31 AM
In response to message 0
A couple of things I forgot to mention:

They are set up with a cross-over cable.

The cable is about 10m long, but the computers are very close together at the moment... about a metre apart, so I have coiled the cable to stop it getting in the way. But would these coils screw with the data transmission down the cable?

Thanks again to any and all who can help!
Christo Fogelberg


2. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
Moesdeal May-13-01 01:48 PM
In response to message 1
From the desktop, RIGHT click the Network neighborhood icon and go to properties. Go to the second tab marked identification and make sure they are in a matching workgroup "everyone" or "workgroup" or whatever you ant it to be. Let me know if that helps.
Moe

3. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-14-01 10:47 AM
In response to message 2
Yup... they are both set to the same workgroup name.
I have a bad feeling its something lower than windows-level, since the link light is (usually?) on, but net diag and ping get no response/time out
Any suggestions for confirming a bad cable?

4. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-14-01 03:05 PM
In response to message 3
Suggest running the diagnostics on the floppies that came with network adapters for starters. Expect the loopback test to fail because you do not have a loopback connector. Larry

5. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-15-01 01:41 AM
In response to message 4
OK will do when I get home, and I'll let you know what the results are...

About net diag though... I thought you could use that to test for protocols that were running properly over the LAN - is there a command line switch for this or am I just totally out of my tree?

Thanks for all your help so far!


6. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-15-01 06:01 AM
In response to message 4
LAST EDITED ON May-15-01 AT 06:03 AM (GMT)

Have done so:
Both cards seem to check out fine, but neither can find the other over the network - but then again the diag programs are different, so they may not be compatible. I'm beginning to suspect a bad cable more and more... the link light seems a little to erratic for my linking, in that the network diag programs I just ran have shut it off...
I might cut it in half and see if I can get either half to work? Any suggestions for checking if it's the cable that's bad (bearing in mind I have very limited access to cable testers and the like...

<<EDIT>>
Oh, and ignore the comment re: net diag in my previous post - I worked out the context you were talking about loopbacks in

Cheers
Christo Fogelberg


7. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-15-01 01:59 PM
In response to message 6
Hold the two ends of the cable with the plugs up and the clips away. The arrangement of the wires at one end should match one of the two diagrams at http://duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable6.htm and the other end should match the other one. If it passes that test, continue the inspection with paragraph 6 at the bottom of http://duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable7.htm. If the Link LEDs are not solid all of the time after the computer boots up, the cable is the likely cause. If the cable was custom made, they may have used the wrong plugs for the kind of wire used for the cable (see the bottom of http://duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable2.htm). Larry

8. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-20-01 11:28 PM
In response to message 7
Hi there.
Well, I've snipped the original plugs off (they were crimp plugs) and rewired, and checked for nicks and all the rest of it in the inner insulation, and my link lights are steady now, but net diag and ping still don't register.
Both computers have the same workgroup name, and are on the same class C network... I'm now thoroughly confused
Any suggestions for further tests?
Cheers,
Christo Fogelberg

9. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-21-01 03:06 PM
In response to message 8
Suggest setting-up the NetBEUI protocol per http://duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/net2pc/intro.htm and see if you can share hard disks, etc. If that works, we'll know that you have a network and the problem is in the TCP/IP configuration. Larry

10. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-22-01 06:10 AM
In response to message 9
LAST EDITED ON May-22-01 AT 06:13 AM (GMT)

Hi there...
I've removed all other protocols except the TCP/IP for the Dial up adapter, and the NetBEUI for the network card, but I've left all the others in - it looks exactly like the screenshot in your HowTo set up a network.
Neither computer can see the other, but after a bit of whinging about the network not being accessible the Win98 computer found itself once again (it disappeared for a couple of reboots when I removed TCP/IP and IPX)
This is getting confusing...


11. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-22-01 03:13 PM
In response to message 10
Is the 10 Mhz card in the 95 computer using a Novell/Anthem NE2000 compatible protocol? Larry

12. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-22-01 11:43 PM
In response to message 11
I think so:
It's a RealTek RTL8029AS PCI card.
The speel in the products section of their website says it is NE2000 compatible.
(http://www.realtek.com.tw/htm/products/cn/rtl8029as.htm)

14. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-23-01 02:53 PM
In response to message 12
LAST EDITED ON May-23-01 AT 02:56 PM (GMT)

I very much doubt that host tables are going to fix anything if the two computers canít talk to each other with NetBEUI. Could you look in the Network configuration in the control Panel of the Win 95 computer and tell be what the driver for the RealTek adapter says. If it says RealTek or anything without Novell in it than it is another problem. Can the Win 95 computer see itself? Larry


15. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-24-01 05:29 AM
In response to message 14
To answer your question, yup, the Win95 computer could see itself, but weirdly, under the Drivers tab in System, the NIC lists itself as having no drivers currently loaded?

It's all fixed now though - I gave up and purchased a crossover cable. And it worked. Grrrrrr.

Many many thanks for all your help though... I probably would have just given up if I hadn't had this forum and the resources on the webpage to keep me trying new things. Plus I've learned a heap more about setting up a small LAN than I had planned on learning - and learning is never a bad thing

But my final question:
Why would the link lights light, if the cable was faulty? (As I assume it was, since the moment I plugged the new cable in, they noticed each other straight away:(


16. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
abNORMal May-24-01 02:13 PM
In response to message 15
"Why would the link lights light, if the cable was faulty? (As I assume it was, since the moment I plugged the new cable in, they noticed each other straight away"

Depends how faulty. Suppose you mistook the white/green for the white/blue at both ends of the cable. It would connect and could even work intermittently, but the white/green and blue solid would not be a twisted pair. The two wires of the pair must be a "twisted pair" for it to work properly.


18. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
doubtme May-24-01 09:23 PM
In response to message 16
Ba-Bing!

Thanks ab and Larry... this must be the reason. I simply arranged the wires in such a way that they were easiest to crimp, and didn't bother having 1/3 and 2/6 be from individual pairs!

I'll cut the jacks off and crimp again
Many thanks!

Christo Fogelberg

I leave you in peace... probably. If your really really lucky.


17. RE: Stuff I forgot to mention...
lbyard May-24-01 02:48 PM
In response to message 15
10BASET and 100BASE-TX Ethernet interfaces have two transmit pins (+ and -) and two receive pins (+ and -). The rest of the pins are unused. Transmit + pins must be connected to receive + pins, etc. (see the diagram at the top of http://duxcw.com/digest/Howto/network/cable/cable5.htm). Solid LINK (or LNK) LEDs on two 10/100 Ethernet devices (network interface card--NIC, hub, switch, etc.) that are connected together indicates that the two transmit pins are connected to the correct receive pins. It does not, however, guarantee that the cable is made properly, is made with the correct cable and connectors, and that is will reliably transmit data. For example, the Ethernet standard specifies that the transmit pins be connected to corresponding receive pins with wires from the same twisted pair. It is certainly possible to connect a set of pins using one wire from one pair and another wire from a different pair. The reason it is possible to get solid LINK LEDs and unreliable data transfers is that link determination is made with a link integrity test pulse is transmitted much slower than the actual Ethernet signals that transfer data. Broken, disconnected, improperly terminated (coax), or miswired cables are responsible for over 70% of all LAN problems! Larry

13. Did you copy host file to another PC ?
Nin May-23-01 04:42 AM
In response to message 0
You must have file named " host " which is a file include IP address and computer name
ex

10.0.0.1 PC1
10..0.0.1 PC2


and then save this file to /windows/host

copy this file to another PC inside /windows/


Hope this helps


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